Discutiendo la lucha por la libertad con Andrew Bogut

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[ 0:07] CK: Andrew, bienvenido a sus primeros espacios de Twitter. Gracias por apresurarse para resolverlo. Realmente emocionado y honrado de que hable con nosotros.

[0:16] Andrew Bogut: Sí, lo agradezco. Gracias por invitarme.

[0:18] CK: Entonces, supongo que rápido, ¿por qué no empezamos con cuál es tu historia? Obviamente, es posible que la gente haya oído hablar de ti como campeón de la NBA. Tienes una larga historia de asombrosos éxitos en el baloncesto. Pero realmente me llamó la atención el año pasado, solo porque realmente ha sido una voz de la razón entre una locura que viene de Australia y otros países del mundo.

[0:47] Andrew: Sí , mira, es un momento loco. Creo que donde quiera que estés en el mundo, parece ser cíclico donde diferentes países se están volviendo más difíciles, y luego se vuelve indulgente y luego se vuelve más difícil. En Australia, he estado aquí durante los últimos años. Y a lo largo de todo esto, el año pasado salimos relativamente ilesos hasta cierto punto. Tuvimos algunos cierres y ese tipo de cosas, pero no fue tan draconiano como lo es ahora. Ahora, son nuestros políticos y nuestros supuestos”líderes”los que continúan con la división y el discurso divisorio y la propaganda del miedo, y es como si hubiera subido 10 puntos y ahora, probablemente estemos donde el resto del mundo fue el año pasado. Entonces, es un momento bastante interesante.

Las personas que están vacunadas, no están vacunadas, ese no es el problema para mí. El problema es la coacción y los mandatos de lo que están haciendo. No le están dando a la gente una opción, sin embargo, nuestro Primer Ministro sube al escenario y dice que es completamente una opción cuando no lo es. Conozco a muchos amigos que estaban perdiendo sus trabajos o estaban a punto de perderlos si no lo aceptaban.

Mi posición es clara. Me refiero a la elección al respecto. Y si quieres conseguirlo, lo consigues. Si no lo hace, no lo hace. Creo que eso es lo que debería ser. Pero en Australia, se ha ido. Estamos casi al 90% en algunos estados. Y como país, estamos casi al 80%, lo que creo que está bastante cerca de los cinco primeros del mundo en cuanto a tasas de vacunación. Y todavía tenemos encierros y toda la retórica a su alrededor. Es muy decepcionante.

[2:28] CK: Creo que hay mucho de qué hablar. Definitivamente queremos hablar sobre lo que está sucediendo en Australia y en todo el mundo como la mayor parte de la conversación aquí, pero solo para crear un contexto, como, ¿siempre has sido una voz que lucha por la libertad y la elección? ¿O es algo que realmente se ha eliminado debido a lo que está sucediendo recientemente?

[2:54] Andrew: Siempre he sido bastante franco. No soy de los que se asustan de dar mi opinión sobre temas en los que… puede que no sea un experto, pero les daré una opinión. Puede que no siempre tenga la razón, pero siempre me he sentido cómodo con eso; si alguien me hacía una pregunta, siempre me enseñaban a tratar de responderla lo mejor que pudiera. Y a veces, como dije, no siempre tengo la razón. Así que siempre he estado bien en poner todo lo que tengo sobre la mesa y vivir con las consecuencias, ya sea controvertido o no, ya sea político, ya sea por causas sociales, sea lo que sea correcto. Entonces, esto simplemente siguió su ejemplo.

Supongo que viniendo de una familia de clase trabajadora que no creció mucho, creo que todo en lo que podía pensar durante estos cierres, y durante estas restricciones, y Todas estas cosas que estaban sucediendo era ¿cómo habría sido yo de niño creciendo en una familia de clase trabajadora con estas restricciones? ¿Cómo habría vivido? ¿Cómo habría vivido nuestra familia? ¿Cómo estaría mi padre, que era mecánico de oficio, lo que no se consideraba esencial, o nadie conduce realmente cuando hay un encierro? Entonces, ¿cómo ponemos la comida en la mesa? Y eso es a lo que volví. Mucha gente decía:”¿Por qué te importa? Eres millonario, sigue adelante”. Pero realmente no estoy expresando preocupaciones por mí mismo. Lo expreso para las personas que no tienen voz.

Básicamente, imagina estar encerrado en Melbourne, mi ciudad natal, con el bloqueo más largo (días en un encierro) del mundo como hoy que han tenido la mayor cantidad de días en los que lo sumas todo. E imagina estar encerrado si eres alguien que no gana mucho dinero y tienes dos hijos en casa. Entonces es esposo, esposa, dos hijos en una unidad de dos dormitorios. Tienes tu trabajo, estás trabajando de forma remota, y luego tienes que hacer tu educación en el hogar con tus hijos, y luego tienes que comer. Es como si la cantidad de estrés y ansiedad que genera cada día en las familias es simplemente horrible. Y creo que va a tener un efecto perjudicial en la salud mental de nuestra sociedad en el camino del que nadie habla, porque todo lo que hablamos, al menos en Australia y el mundo, son números de casos, números de casos, números de casos.

[5:02] CK: Entonces, en realidad, es solo reflexionar sobre cómo creciste y luego sentir empatía por otras personas que podrían estar en tu situación similar hoy. ¿Puede hablarnos de la forma en que se están aplicando muchos de estos protocolos y mandatos? He visto muchas historias y mucha gente comentando cómo esto se aplica mucho más en las áreas pobres y de clase trabajadora. Y si estás en las partes más ricas, no ves a un policía en absoluto. Eso le da mucho más margen de maniobra, solo como referencia.

[5:36] Andrew: Sí, seguro. Definitivamente eso es un problema. La forma en que el gobierno trata de manipularlo, está tratando de imponerlo a la gente común para que lo controle. Y en su mayor parte, hay personas que hacen eso, como todos los días, personas; por personas comunes, me refiero a personas que no están en posiciones de poder, solo el dueño del negocio, lo que sea. Quieren que lo vigilen. Quieren que revisen los papeles. Quieren que realmente implementen los mandatos de la máscara, ya sea que alguien tenga una exención o no. Están tratando de dividir realmente al público y hacer que sus estrellas destaquen en la comunidad. Y eso es lo que está pasando.

Probablemente haya una minoría, el 10% de la población tal vez para una estimación aproximada que lo está comprando. Le están contando a sus vecinos. Hubo una parte durante los encierros de Melbourne en los que no podías recibir visitas durante dieciocho meses. Podrías tener cuatro visitantes y luego, dos semanas después, tuvimos un cierre. Sin visitas durante tres meses. Hubo vecinos criticando a sus vecinos por invitar a sus abuelos a ver a los nietos porque se consideraba ilegal o contra los mandatos, ¿verdad?

Entonces, los políticos acaban de crear tanto miedo. No estoy seguro si ustedes están familiarizados, pero esos son los primeros ministros de estado, que es similar a los senadores en los Estados Unidos, que estamos haciendo conferencias de prensa diarias. Todo el mundo estaba sintonizando estas cosas porque estaban delineando las reglas. ¿Cuáles son las nuevas reglas? ¿Qué puedo y qué no puedo hacer? ¿Puedo ir al bar? ¿Puedo ir a un restaurante? Así que la gente se sintonizaba con eso todos los días, y creaban tanto miedo y ansiedad en la gente que todo el mundo estaba al borde y contándose unos a otros y es solo un momento de división.

Entonces, para responder su pregunta, sí, el protocolo es implementado como”una cosa”por parte de los políticos, pero el hecho de que comenzaron a ser seguidos y vigilados por ciudadanos comunes, ahí es cuando se vuelve un poco más aterrador. Nunca querrás llegar a una posición en la que le estés contando a tu vecino… La división y la ansiedad en la comunidad, en su mayor parte, al menos en Melbourne y Sydney, es definitivamente un récord histórico.

[7:37] CK: Definitivamente he notado que es solo una tendencia, en general, es dividir y realmente trato de apoyarme en ciudadanos individuales para sacar estos mandatos. Eso ha sido algo que forma parte de la horrible historia de la Alemania nazi en ese momento de la historia, donde la gente espiaba a sus vecinos y no sabías quién era parte de la policía secreta. Fue una época realmente oscura. Y suena como… ahora, tal vez no sea la etnicidad lo que sea un chivo expiatorio, sino más bien como los no vacíos como un chivo expiatorio. Y los políticos están tirando de esa cuerda, no solo en Australia, aunque en gran medida en Australia, sino también en todas partes.

[8:24] Andrew: Sí. Y es solo la redacción que usan los políticos, y se está convirtiendo en toda la campaña de marketing en torno a la vacunación. Esta es una pandemia de personas no vacunadas. Bueno, no lo es. Miras los números, no lo es.

A mi modo de ver, si tienes a alguien que está perfectamente sano, come bien, hace ejercicio, hace todo lo correcto para su cuerpo y tiene treinta y cinco años. viejos, y no están vacunados, creo que son más saludables que alguien que tiene cuarenta y cinco años y se sienta en el sofá y come Doritos, KFC y McDonald’s, y solo mira Netflix todo el día y tiene mucho sobrepeso y obesidad, bueno, lo cual ¿Uno es más saludable?

Ni siquiera podemos tener esas discusiones en una sociedad civilizada, ¿verdad? Es como si el hecho de que te hayas puesto la vacuna no significa que estés sano y que todo esté perfecto en tu cuerpo. Las vacunas están destinadas a protegerlo. Pero en lo que respecta a toda esta perorata sobre que los no vacunados son los que llevan a cabo esta pandemia, es muy divisivo. Y los números no retroceden.

Podría estar equivocado, pero los números que he leído no respaldan esas afirmaciones. Es estrictamente para causar división dentro de la sociedad y evitar lo que ahora supuestamente es el 10% de la sociedad en Australia, el 20% en algunos estados, pero probablemente como país, el 10% o el 15% de las personas todavía no están vacunadas.

La otra cosa es que hay muchas personas que están doblemente vacunadas que no apoyan los mandatos, y eso es de lo que no se habla. Entonces, nuestros políticos están saltando diciendo que estos anti-vacunas están locos. Son fascistas. Son esto, son eso. Creo que la mayoría de las personas, al menos en Australia, se han vacunado porque van a perder algo.

La prioridad número uno para que se vacunen no fue”Tengo miedo al coronavirus”, sino”No quiero perder mi trabajo. Quiero poder ir a los eventos deportivos de mis hijos. Quiero poder ir a restaurantes”. Esa es probablemente la razón 1, 2 y 3, siendo la salud 4, lo cual es una locura.

Hay una minoría que es un número menor, tal vez el 20% o el 30% que lo contrajo por razones estrictamente de salud. Pero yo diría que la mayoría lo consiguió porque fueron obligados a perder algo. Ya sea que esté de acuerdo en que tener razón o no, ese es probablemente el mayor debate con todo esto.

[10:47] CK: Andrew, creo que muchos Bitcoiners están del lado de su opinión aquí. en este tipo de mundo de payasos locos en el que nos encontramos. Parece que podría ser incluso una opinión minoritaria en todo el planeta. Pero un poco curioso, tu interés en Bitcoin. Te vi twitteando un gráfico y luego me di cuenta de que me seguías a mí y, potencialmente, a Bitcoin Magazine también. Obviamente, está realizando un seguimiento de esta moneda digital. Tengo curiosidad por saber cuál es su historia de Bitcoin y sus pensamientos sobre Bitcoin, y tal vez cómo eso se alinea con sus puntos de vista sobre los derechos humanos, la dignidad y la libertad.

[11:27] Andrew: Bueno, sí. Tener otra moneda clásica no es lo peor del mundo, ¿verdad? Conocemos a la Fed al menos en los EE. UU. Y lo que hacen, especialmente en este momento con la cantidad de inflación en los EE. UU. Estuve involucrado en Bitcoin no temprano, pero probablemente me involucré en 2000.

Y fue aproximadamente en 2018, compré algo de Bitcoin, un poco de Ethereum. Y entonces lo dejé reposar y lo olvidé durante uno o dos años. Realmente no le presté atención. Y luego llegué a conocer muy bien a Haralabos Voulgaris. Es un gurú de Bitcoin. Él es todo sobre eso. Él estaba en mi oído mucho sobre, simplemente súbete y súbete, y sigue subiendo tanto, que básicamente tengo un buy-in diario para Bitcoin.

Realmente no me dedico demasiado a las altcoins. Simplemente me quedé con el gángster original en Bitcoin. Haralabos me ha ayudado mucho con la forma de pensar al respecto. Entonces, tengo un sesgo diario establecido todos los días, la misma cantidad de dinero, ya sea que suba o baje, es solo un sesgo diario, que fue una recomendación que él hizo. Así que me ayudó a superarlo.

Y mira, me gusta diversificar de todos modos. Entonces, lo que la gente piense al respecto, para mí, es diversificación, y obviamente, simplemente no sabemos qué va a pasar en el mundo con la forma en que van los bancos, con China, obviamente, tiene una identificación digital. Esa es una preocupación para mucha gente con todo lo que está sucediendo ahora. Podría llamarlo una teoría de la conspiración hoy. Pero hace 2 años, habría dicho que era una teoría conspirativa de que necesitaría una vacuna o perdería su trabajo, o que necesita una vacuna para viajar por el mundo. Así que esa era una teoría de la conspiración hace 2 años. Eso es ahora un hecho. Entonces, ¿quién sabe?

La gente piensa que hay un gran impulso para la identificación digital y vincular su cuenta bancaria y una moneda a esa identificación. Así que supongo que Bitcoin sería la alternativa a eso, pero todos sabemos cuánto van los gobiernos tras Bitcoin. Así que no me sorprendería, especialmente aquí en Australia. Probablemente somos el país más legislado del mundo con las leyes fiscales, las leyes comerciales y todo eso, que intentan implementar algo para arruinar a Bitcoin. No me sorprendería, pero ese es mi sentimiento corto. No soy un gurú pesado como ustedes de ninguna manera, pero definitivamente estoy involucrado y sigo bastante de cerca.

[13:57] CK: Eso es asombroso. En Bitcoin Magazine, realmente no incursionamos en altcoins y realmente apreciamos el promedio del costo en dólares en las compras diarias de Bitcoin. Así que creo que tu amigo te puso en el camino correcto.

Tengo curiosidad. Tenemos a Roman de Bitcoin Beach en El Salvador, y ha sido una gran parte de esa historia. Pero tengo un poco de curiosidad, supongo, ¿qué le despertó al panóptico de vigilancia chino y al hecho de que los gobiernos están tomando medidas drásticas contra las libertades? Siento que eso es algo a lo que la mayoría de la gente en el mundo no está prestando atención, y definitivamente no en Australia. Como ha dicho, Australia está fuertemente regulada de formas bastante alarmantes para el resto del mundo.

[14:55] Andrew: Sí, leo mucho. Leí algunas de las mierdas más aleatorias de la historia. Estoy bastante versado. No soy un experto en nada, pero puedo hablar sobre la mayoría de las cosas si tiene sentido.

Leí muchas noticias de todo el mundo. Lo principal es que he visitado China varias veces, ¿verdad? Así que he visto su progresión, lo llamarían, a su identificación digital. Visité allí en 2005-2006. Y en 2008, en los Juegos Olímpicos, no fue tan malo entonces. Volví en 2019. Ahora es un nivel completamente diferente. Como si estuviéramos entrando en la arena de baloncesto y básicamente hay CCTV cuando entras en la entrada. Tan pronto como llegue a su cara, su identificación estará en la pantalla. Cuando vas a los Juegos Olímpicos o un evento deportivo, los tienes. Ves a los entrenadores y lo que sea que lleva esas tarjetas de plástico en una pequeña cadena alrededor de su pecho. Esa es su identificación.

Bueno, tan pronto como entras en la arena, escanea tu cara y estás en una pantalla con todos tus números. Estás como,”Mierda. Esto es una locura, hombre”. Esa es básicamente la tecnología que tienen en las calles. Obviamente, reciben multas por cruzar imprudentemente sin interactuar con un oficial. Simplemente aparece en el correo, porque obtuvieron un reconocimiento facial que está vinculado a su identificación en su cuenta de WeChat. Entonces ves eso y nadie le presta atención en absoluto. Es solo China. Déjalo ser, lo que sea, pero anda.

Pero a algunos países como Australia les encantaría tener ese tipo de sistema. La gente piensa que es una locura decirlo o escucharlo, pero a los políticos les encantaría. Quiero decir, tendrías el pulgar en la frente de todos.

[16:31] CK: No es una locura escuchar lo que hace el dictador Dan en sus conferencias de prensa. Él podría decirlo.

[16:37] Andrew: Sin duda. Sí, es el peor. No hay ningún político aquí en quien confíe su palabra. Eso está en el poder, no en un solo estado. Son tiranos hambrientos de poder en este momento, y todos los días continúan sorprendiéndome con la retórica con la que están saliendo.

Pero sí, hombre, sigo la progresión de adónde se ha ido China. Mi familia es de ascendencia croata. Soy de ascendencia croata. Mis padres nacieron en Croacia. Y mis abuelos emigraron durante el comunismo. Así que, lamentablemente, estábamos en el lado equivocado del Partido Comunista. No estábamos con… lo que estaba pasando. Entonces, si alguien que ha leído sobre el comunismo, está con nosotros o en contra de esto. Y si estás en contra de esto, estás escuchando una mierda.

Mi bisabuelo fue encarcelado. Fue golpeado por la policía militar frente a su casa y vecinos en múltiples ocasiones por estar en el cuerpo político alterno, esencialmente. Y así, escaparon de eso en los años 70 y salieron justo antes de la Guerra de Independencia, que fue a principios de los 90 en Yugoslavia. Entonces son similares a este tipo de cosas.

Y supongo que cada vez que lo mencionas, esto es muy similar a cómo se formó y comenzó el comunismo. La gente dice:”Oh, eres un idiota. ¿Cómo puedes compararlo con esto?”Bueno, les diré a esas personas que no hablan con alguien que ha migrado del comunismo. No me hables de eso a mí, ni a ti. No hables con alguien que haya emigrado de la URSS, o de diferentes partes de Alemania, o Yugoslavia, lo que sea, ¿verdad? También hay algunas naciones sudamericanas.

Ve a hablar con ellos y te darán la respuesta. Todas las personas con las que he hablado que emigraron de un régimen comunista han dicho que así es como comienza y hemos visto esta historia antes. Cada uno de ellos. Pero tienes a estos chicos que acaban de salir de la universidad y piensan que el comunismo es una utopía y que todo es genial.

Y tienes a estos 40 o 50 años en Australia. Australia nunca se ha enfrentado realmente a un conflicto en su tierra natal, además de lo que les sucedió a los indígenas hace muchas generaciones. Aquí nunca ha habido una guerra. Entonces la gente no conoce las atrocidades de lo que un ser humano puede proponer. Creo que estamos un poco protegidos. Hemos sido un país afortunado durante el último siglo. Así que la gente no tiene idea, pero supongo que ese sería mi único consejo. Si crees que no lo es, ve y habla con alguien que vivió en…

[19:01] CK: Chimbera, ¿qué tienes que decir?

[19: 04] Chimbera: ¡Oye! ¿Qué pasa, chicos? ¿Cómo estás?

[19:09] CK: Lo estamos haciendo muy bien. Andrew, solo para un poco de contexto, Chimbera, nuevamente, es un líder comunitario en Bitcoin Beach, El Zonte, El Salvador. Sus esfuerzos fueron una gran parte de que finalmente Bitcoin se convierta en moneda de curso legal en El Salvador. Entonces, tal vez, Chimbera será tímido con ese tipo de reconocimiento, pero definitivamente ha hecho un gran papel por los Bitcoiners. Creo que tal vez pueda discutir cómo Bitcoin ha afectado la libertad de las personas en El Salvador que lo han adoptado.

[19:47] Chimbera: ¡No! Es super emocionante. Andrew, un placer conocerte. Es muy emocionante oírte hablar de ello y es un placer conocerte. Puedes venir aquí y podemos conocerte. Estoy saltando a este espacio porque hoy, estoy en el lugar donde va a ser Bitcoin City en este momento. Y esto es como un paraíso, muchachos.

Cada lugar en el que me han visto hoy es como,”¡Vaya! ¡Esto va a ser increíble!”Estando aquí hoy y viendo esta puesta de sol que estoy viendo hoy, puedes ir a mi perfil y mirar la foto que acabo de publicar. ¡Esta parte de El Salvador es increíble! Bitcoin aquí va a estar cerca de aquí y solo quiero traerte esta loca idea, ¿verdad? Pero eso va a ser una realidad. Espero que muchos de ustedes estén aquí pronto.

[21:03] CK: Chimbera, hemos estado hablando sobre la libertad y la falta de libertad en Australia. Ahora, ha habido muchas críticas hacia Bukele por lo que está haciendo políticamente fuera de la ley de Bitcoin. ¿Está seguro de que El Salvador y Bitcoin City van a ser un lugar gratuito para la gente, como un refugio? ¿O es algo que podría ser una quimera?

[21:32] Chimbera: Solo quiero responderte con esta respuesta. Estoy pasando el mejor momento de mi vida aquí ahora. Entonces, consigue lo que quieras, pero estoy pasando el mejor momento de mi vida.

[21:46] CK: ¡Genial! Iba a decir más adelante en la conversación, nos encantaría escuchar algunas historias sobre cómo Bitcoin ha afectado a las personas en El Salvador y El Zonte, en particular a su comunidad. Quizás eso sea algo útil.

Pero le agradezco que comparta sobre Bitcoin City. También tenemos a Tone Vays en el escenario. De hecho, compartí un tweet de Tone Vays hace un par de días, y siento que fue realmente relevante para lo que Andrew estaba diciendo. Algo así como con respecto a las personas que han escapado del comunismo, el fascismo y los nazis. Están comenzando a ver signos de eso nuevamente en Australia y en otros países del mundo. Y creo que el tuit de Tone tiene mucho que decir al respecto. Sé que Tone tiene una historia en Rusia y puede reflexionar sobre eso también.

[22:36] Chimbera: Lo que quiero compartir con ustedes hoy es como, la semana pasada, tuvimos el Bitcoin Semana, así lo llamamos aquí en El Salvador. Fue increíble. Y les doy la bienvenida a todos en El Zonte y Bitcoin Beach. Y digo:”¡Bienvenido al futuro!”¡Fue increíble ver a todos en todo el mundo!

Como gente de Europa, gente de África, gente de Estados Unidos, gente de Canadá, todos aquí usando diferentes productos, usando diferentes billeteras, usando diferentes compañías. Pero tener una cosa en común y pagar a todos los comerciantes aquí usando la misma red monetaria para pagar todos los servicios y todos los productos. Y digo:”Así será el futuro”.

Entonces, si hay un lugar donde quiero estar, es en El Salvador. No es porque yo sea de aquí, es porque El Salvador es uno de los lugares que le muestra al mundo entero que es como, ¡claro, vamos! Australia se está volviendo loca y no entiendo por qué. Pero es alguien que dice:”Bienvenidos, muchachos. Vengan aquí. Encuéntrense aquí. Gasten sus bitcoins aquí. Compre sus casas aquí”.

[24:13] Svetski: Realmente debería haberme unido a ustedes en El Salvador la semana pasada. Estaba demasiado ocupado en Dubai y Europa. Ahora, también de vuelta en los EE. UU. Oye, gracias por dejarme decir algunas palabras. Andrew, soy un gran admirador. Recuerdo verte.

Soy un Bitcoiner que escapó de la Unión Soviética a fines de la década de 1980. Solo tenía diez años. Pero lo recuerdo y básicamente cambié todo mi Twitter de hablar solo de Bitcoin a básicamente hablar exactamente lo que estás diciendo. Solo mirando lo que está pasando. Es una locura. He perdido muchos suscriptores. La gente está muy molesta porque volví mi canal político, hablando en contra de todo lo relacionado con los mandatos, las vacunas y algunas otras cosas políticas, ¡pero esto es mucho más importante!

Y sí, es una locura. Mis padres también ven la escritura en la pared. Estados Unidos es como uno de los últimos lugares que quedan debido a nuestros derechos de armas. Y se ve muy mal. Entonces, solo quería comentar que estoy de acuerdo contigo al cien por cien. Y esto es literalmente en lo que se ha convertido mi cuenta de Twitter, en lugar de educar sobre Bitcoin, que es lo que ha sido durante 6 años seguidos antes del último año y medio.

[25:36] Andrew: Sí. Creo que para saltar muy rápido, es importante hablar de ello. Tenemos que hablar de eso. Eso es lo más decepcionante es que a todo el mundo se le evita hablar de ello. Y creo que es cómplice si permanece en silencio cuando ve injusticias y violaciones de derechos humanos por todas partes.

[25:58] Svetski: Sí, estoy de acuerdo. Y mi última semana de ayer, fue como un artículo donde los políticos estadounidenses están aconsejando a la gente que no celebre el Día de Acción de Gracias. Como,”Oye, tal vez no deberías ver a tu familia”.”Oye, tal vez no deberías comprar ese pavo, porque es más caro”. Y eso realmente me disparó porque mi familia se fue de la Unión Soviética la semana de Acción de Gracias, como la semana de este feriado.

No importa en qué parte del mundo esté, siempre trato de volver a Estados Unidos. Solo esta semana, es como la fiesta más importante para mi familia porque esa es la semana en que dejamos el comunismo. Y estoy viendo todos estos artículos que le dicen a las personas que no se reúnan con sus familias. Es una locura.

[26:40] Andrew: Tengo uno mejor para ti. Así que nuestra versión en Australia de como el Today Show o el programa matutino, como los que tienes en Estados Unidos que la gente ve mientras preparan el desayuno para los niños.

Tuvimos un presentador aquí, probablemente el programa matutino de mayor audiencia, y ofreció un segmento de 4 o 5 minutos sobre cómo debe tratar a los miembros de la familia no vacunados. Y como, literalmente, entró en detalles sobre”bueno, tal vez no deberías invitarlos”.”Deberías confrontarlos”.”Deberías hacerlos sentir…”Yo estaba como, esto está en la televisión nacional, uno de los programas matutinos de mayor audiencia. Simplemente no podía creer que este fuera un segmento real de la televisión australiana. Fue increíble.

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[29:23] CK: Algunas de las cosas que hemos estado viendo en Australia han sido absolutamente asombrosas. Y luego dos cosas; el nivel de crítica internacional es una cosa, pero luego el nivel de aceptación por parte de los australianos es otra. Realmente habla de cuán lejos está el adoctrinamiento y cuán lejos estamos de las mentalidades de 2019.

[29:49] Andrew: Sí, sin duda. Y mire, la mayoría de las personas que se ponen de pie e intentan expresar sus preocupaciones y pelear, hay muchos australianos, pero la mayoría de los australianos es… hay muchas personas que han emigrado aquí que provienen de diferentes situaciones que son como,”Vamos a luchar por esto”.

Como dije, creo que Australia ha sido un país afortunado durante el último siglo. No hay conflicto aquí. Sin guerras. Problemas del primer mundo. Todos tienen suficiente para sobrevivir. Entonces, no hay problemas reales. Mientras que ahora, está empezando a dar la vuelta y la gente dice:”No, lucharemos para tratar de mantener este país por qué fue genial”.

Pero para la mayoría de los australianos que nunca se han enfrentado a esto o saben nada sobre esto, es algo extraño. Como,”¡No! Estaremos bien. Es Australia. No va a pasar nada malo. Confiamos en nuestros políticos. Ellos harán lo correcto por nosotros”. Creo que son las personas que en cuestión de tiempo van a estar muy, muy sorprendidas.

[30:42] CK: Quiero volver a Chimbera y escuchar y hablar un poco. sobre el arbitraje jurisdiccional, la idea de trasladar estados, tratar de ir a lugares que van a respetar a los ciudadanos más que Australia, algunos estados de Estados Unidos, Europa, ese tipo de cosas.

Pero quiero escuchar lo que está sucediendo en las calles de Melbourne y algunas de estas otras ciudades importantes que realmente han estado bloqueadas por un tiempo. ¿Qué porcentaje de australianos ha comenzado a cuestionarse realmente qué está pasando?

Supongo que, de nuevo, esto es algo que realmente no se cubre en absoluto en los medios de comunicación tradicionales aquí. Parece que hablarán de algunas protestas, pero definitivamente no hablarán de COVID o protestas de cierre.

Entonces, ¿qué está pasando en las calles?

[31:27] Andrew: Sí, quiero decir, el fin de semana pasado, pensamos que estaba cerca de un millón en total en todo el país, por ahí. Podrían haber sido 700.000. Pero teníamos entre 700.000 y un millón de personas en todo el país. Así que teníamos un par de 100.000 en Melbourne, un par de 100.000 en Sydney, y luego todas las demás ciudades pequeñas tenían números, ¿verdad?

Entonces, no está muy publicitado. Generalmente, si fuera una protesta por cualquier otra causa social, sería noticia de primera plana. Tienes que poner 3 o 4 páginas en el papel, o tienes que desplazarte hacia abajo en el sitio web para encontrarlo. Como dije, hay gente ahí que son grupos mixtos. Como dije, soy de origen croata.

Entonces, lo que realmente me atrapó fue que un amigo mío me envió una transmisión en vivo. Todo el que no lo sepa debería buscarlo. Pero las comunidades croata y serbia, históricamente, no son las mejores amigas. Hay una guerra masiva que terminó a principios de los 90. Durante estas protestas, había 2 personas, una con una bandera croata, otra con una bandera serbia, caminando de la mano.

Entonces, para ver ese tipo de cosas en estas protestas, y en los medios, los políticos incursionaron. Llaman a estas personas fascistas de derecha, nazis, anti-vacunas. Y hablas con algunas de estas personas.

Conozco personalmente a personas que han acudido a muchas de estas protestas. Son personas apolíticas. No les importaba la política, ni de izquierda ni de derecha. Lo único que les importaba era que yo quisiera ir a trabajar. Quiero volver a casa, pasar tiempo con mis hijos, trabajar de siete a siete durante la semana. En un fin de semana, vaya a pescar, practique surf. Para unas vacaciones, haga que los niños salgan a comer, vayan al deporte. Alguien con esa vida, ¡ahora está invertido!

Son como,”No, me voy a poner de pie”. Pero mira lo que los medios están presentando para retratar a estas personas, en su mayor parte, incluso solo la redacción que usan en un artículo como anti-vacunas, ¡no lo son! Hay algunas personas que son anti-vacunas–

Correcto. Hay algunas personas allí que probablemente están en el lado más violento y están listas para crear desobediencia civil. Estoy de acuerdo con eso, un pequeño porcentaje.

Pero la mayoría de estas personas son familias trabajadoras que no son nazis. No son fascistas, están mirando… hemos estado encerrados durante casi dos años. La salud mental está empeorando, no puedo pagar mi hipoteca, mis hijos están luchando porque tienen seis años y están estudiando diez horas a través de un iPad o una computadora. Son estas personas y ahí es donde los medios de comunicación están siendo cómplices porque no están contando toda la historia.

Están tratando de etiquetar a estas personas como villanos cuando no es así. No son villanos, están defendiendo lo que es correcto. Pero quiero decir, nuestros políticos luego dicen, bueno, incluso cuando ocurren las protestas, es una pequeña parte de nuestra población.

Pero como dije, hay personas que han recibido ambas dosis de la vacuna. Hay personas que han recibido una dosis. Hay gente que no ha tenido ninguno y todos se han unido. Pero, desafortunadamente, la gente común que solo mira los medios y piensa que eso es posible. Los miras como si fueran la razón por la que todavía estamos bloqueando. Son la razón por la que todavía hay una pandemia, que es simplemente sensacionalismo absoluto en su mejor momento y es simplemente erróneo en los hechos.

[34:29] Chimbera: Andrew, si hay algún lugar que dice”Bienvenido”es El Salvador. Chicos, si hay alguien en este Twitter Space que no se sienta representado por ningún país , come to El Salvador, come to Bitcoin Beach, come to El Zonte, come to El Salvador. This is your country! This is your place! This is where you need to be right now, guys.

I’m right now where it’s going to be Bitcoin City. I’m watching an amazing sunset and I say this is a paradise! I’m going to post a picture and I need to leave now because I’m here with some friends. But I’m going to close by saying this,”The Bitcoin Beach still want to go to the Bitcoin Conference in April in Miami. I want to talk to Bitcoin Magazine and I hope we can have some tickets to the conference.”

[35:29] CK: Yeah, let’s make it happen. Just DM me, Chimbera.

[35:30] Chimbera:…to the conference.

[35:31] CK: Yes, sir. I want to turn it back to Andrew. Andrew, what are your thoughts in terms of leaving Australia potentially, going to a place that respects people’s rights a little bit more, and that kind of idea? Obviously, that’s a very popular idea amongst Bitcoin people because Bitcoin is global money, it’s fungible and usable and liquid everywhere, and it enables people to kind of take their property and leave. That’s one of the features. What are your thoughts on that and the future might force that?

[36:09] Andrew: Yeah, I mean, look, I get it. It’s easier said than done. My wife and I, actually, we have children, we have two kids. One starts school next year. I think that’s a huge reason why people can’t just get up and leave.

Look, I have alternate escape routes if needed. If this gets any crazier, I have different options that I can look at. But I mean, El Salvador might be the answer because you look at Croatia, I got a passport. I’ve got citizenship of Croatia so that’s a possibility. But now you look there and they’ve just–because they’re a part of the EU, they’re starting to follow suit with Austria and Germany.

Now, they have implemented the past whereas their president, only three or four months ago, they got to 50% of vax rate in the population and said,”No, we’re done. This is enough. We’re moving on with everyone who’s got it. Everyone who’s wanted it has got it, it’s time to move on.”

So, I thought, shit, they’re doing the right thing. They’re getting on with life. But no, we’re hearing that they’ve implemented passes just to get in hospitals and get medical help and treatment.

The problem is where do you go and all it takes is if you move for political reasons in this day and age is a little bit different than back in the day, it could change on a whim.

You look at how the US, every state is different now with different rules. You move somewhere, let’s say hypothetically you move to Florida, which is great now. Then two years, someone else gets in who’s more into the tyrant type stuff and then you’ve moved your family, and then that changes. That’s a concern with moving on a whim. I agree with Bitcoin, it’s much easier to just get up and go. But I think most people would move right now.

I know people in Victoria, Melbourne, which is a state of Victoria, that would get out but they can’t because of the employment. They’ve got a mortgage on a house. They’ve got kids in school, kids with friends there, family. That’s what draws people. If I was single or just myself and my wife, probably a different conversation. But people have to remember that when you set up your life somewhere with children and that it becomes much harder and that’s where the government and society really have you. You can’t just pack a suitcase and leave.

But I guess on the flip side, debating myself is how long do you wait? Do you wait till it’s so bad that you can barely get out? That’s the million-dollar question.

[38:40] CK: It’s definitely extremely hard and I think within the US, there are areas with more and less confidence for people who want to move. Then internationally, there are areas with more and less are confident. But I feel like even internationally, there’s really no safe haven that has really kind of presented itself. I guess, El Salvador at Bitcoin City and kind of what went down there last week kind of might be an answer. But I feel like there’s definitely a lot of questions still there. I see you’re waving your hands.

[39:10] Andrew: Especially for us. [crosstalk]

[39:13] CK: It’s pretty much just the US or maybe some island. But yeah, one hundred percent.

[39:19] Andrew: The first world, essentially the countries that have been hardest hit with tyrannical senators and premiers and prime ministers, you look at Australia, you look at some of the states in the US. England had been hit pretty hard. Canada, Germany, it’s generally first of all countries. I actually heard someone talking the other day that if you’re pretty well off or have a decent income or decent net worth that go into a second world, third world, isn’t the worst thing because you can live a very good life there. They’ve got bigger issues than COVID so it’s not as tyrannical there, which I thought was an interesting point of view to hear.

[40:01] CK: No, a hundred percent. I mean, I feel like Mexico stands out in North America to me. But yeah, it’s definitely hard, especially right now there are no clear answers.

[40:14] Guest 1: Yeah, I’m with you about Mexico. I’ve been looking at Mexico myself.

[40:20] CK: I see you’re raising your hand. What’s up, my man?

[40:23] Guest 1: I just wanted to chime in and kind of ask Andrew a little bit more on the Australia side of things. What is the access to testing, if anything? Are there testing centers available regardless of what your vaccine status is? Or is that just sort of not even an option?

[40:43] Andrew: You mean testing for just if you’ve got COVID?

[40:45] Guest 1: COVID testing, yes.

[40:47] Andrew: No, they want you to test. They’ll bring out a silver platter for you to test. If they can get their case numbers off and create more fear, they will roll out a red carpet for you to get tested. That doesn’t matter so much so that, I mean, they’re mandatory testing people if you’re in a–what I think today a backpacker hotel in Byron Bay of all places.

Byron Bay is kind of known as I’d say a free hippie-type town, a backpacker hostel. There was a positive case there, they’ve locked down that whole hostel. Then all had to leave, they have to get mandatory testing and then self-isolate. They go hard, even testing, I mean, at one point we had Dan Andrews, who was just referenced before.

He’s a Premier of Victoria saying that even if you have hay fever symptoms, you should still get tested. I mean, just absolutely bonkers. They want as many tests out there as they can get. It shows how scared the people are because you go into some of these testing sites and there are lines around the block on any given day, especially if during hay fever season.

Melbourne’s notorious for hay fever. I get it every winter. Someone gets a little sniffle and their eyes are sore and they’re running a test and it’s kind of crazy. I think you got to know your own symptoms of hay fever that you’re not going to run and get tested every third day. But they get to answer your question, they love testing and they’ll roll out the red carpet for you to boost those case numbers up so they can put it up on a screen.

[42:15] Guest 1: My assumption is all of the testings in Australia is free or at least covered by the health care system that you guys have over there.

[42:24] Andrew: Correct. The health system covers your basic PCR test. I mean, it’s changing like the state of Queensland here has now, that in Australia they’re very strict on letting people back in. Even residents can’t get back in. Well, now they have allowed residents back in. They have to be double vaccinated and they have to home quarantine.

These are people that actually owned a home here that happened to have got locked out of the state, could not even return to their home where locked for months 6 or 7 now.

Now they’re making, if you’re a non-resident, they’re going to open for tourism. Queensland in Australia, for those who don’t know, it’s a Florida/California tropical climate. It’s kind of the tourist destination in Australia to get away for a weekend and get some sunshine. They’re allowing tourists to come in starting next month, have to be double vaccinated. But you’d have to pay for your own testing to come in.

That’s been a huge issue politically here because, for a family of 4, it’s going to cost 4-5-$600 for you just to get into the state, on top of your travel costs. People are kind of losing their shit around that saying,”well, an everyday family that’s a lot of money just for a test.”

They’re kind of crazy here. Every state has different rules, it changes daily. You need permits to go everywhere. You have to get a permit to go state to state. Just crossing a border, you have to get a permit. It’s just not a good time.

[43:52] Guest 2: Hey, Andrew, when you say tourism, do you mean within Australia? Or do you mean from other countries?

[43:57] Andrew: Both but you can’t get–Well, this is a whole separate issue but yeah, generally-ish, Queensland was very big with the Japanese and a lot of Asian migrants and holidaymakers.

But in Australia, Queensland is kind of the place you go to get some warmth. If you’re working in the grind in Melbourne or Sydney or Adelaide or wherever and you’re like,”Hey, I want to get some sun for 2 or 3 days or go for a two-week holiday with the family,”Queensland’s kind of the place you go and it’s like Brisbane, Gold Coast, Cairns.

But your other question, so, this is what’s crazy there. There are work shortages for whatever reason. Now a lot of companies are struggling to find workers. The theory is that a lot is being stood down because they haven’t taken the mandated vaccine or both doses or whatever reason. Some people have just protested it because they didn’t want to be forced.

There’s a lot of companies that have employee shortages. They’ve actually allowing international students and migrant work visas into the country. They can actually get into some of these states that Australian people can’t even get into. That’s what’s crazy. I tweeted about it a couple of days ago so if you’re looking to go state to state for a holiday, you double vax and all that a lot of other stuff, and you won’t get in. But if you’re coming on a student or a work visa, they might accept one dose. There are different rules for people coming from overseas.

Everyday, Australians over here are kind of up against it a little bit where it’s like, I live in this country. I’m a citizen. I’ve got less rights than someone coming in here on a work or student visa is just absolutely mind-blowing.

[45:33] Guest 2: Yeah, I’m really going to miss Australia. I really enjoyed Brisbane and Gold Coast. I’ve been to all the major cities. I see Svetski just joined as a speaker. That’s where we met back in…

[45:43] Svetski: It was our honeymoon.

Andrew, we haven’t met yet, buddy. I recognize your face because I remember I saw that video that kind of went viral on Twitter or Instagram or fucking something, I don’t know. But I appreciate you having the balls to fucking actually speak up because everyone else has obviously been bought and paid for or is too cocked to stand the fuck up and actually speak the truth. They hide behind a veil of political correctness, which is absolute fucking horseshit. That’s the whole reason why we’re in this mess, in the beginning, is, we don’t have any more strong men that are willing to get up and say something.

The fucking women are braver than the men these days, seriously. My sister’s in Brizzie so I’m as you can probably tell, you know the accent. I grew up there. I got out in 2019. I’ve always said Australia was a dictatorship behind the veil. People used to laugh at me and so I whatever meant Australia is one of the freest countries.

I never knew it would get this fucking bad this quickly, but I got the fuck out in 2019. When I saw what was happening in 2020, I decided not to come back. I don’t know if I’ll ever come back at this point because it’s a disaster.

My sister’s in Brizzie, my mom’s in Sydney. My sister hasn’t been able to visit my mom for fucking god knows a year now, I think. Well, whatever it’s been, it’s just fucking categorically ridiculous.

It’s a function of the country of a time having built up such a capital base that it is wealthy enough to perpetuate what is effectively an economic fraud. Any form of a mandate is economically fraudulent because you can’t force everybody to do the fucking same thing just because some wannabe dictator said so. But Australia has the money to anyone that might oppose either gets appeased or censored.

[48:01] Andrew: Or fined?

[48:02] Svetski: Or fined, exactly. They’re basically robbing from one group to fund subsidizing things like the media. I was looking at one of the recent announcements by the government where they’re saying some sectors of the economy have been impacted really heavily in particular. Media has apparently been impacted really heavily and they get a fucking 100% rebate on any expenses for the next 12 months. If that’s not bought and paid for, I don’t fucking know what is.

[48:39] Andrew: I just quietly subscribed to what I already posted that was like, does anyone else not see what this is? You wonder why we’re not getting the right messaging around who really is at protests, why we’re getting the rhetoric, why they’re doubling down on premiers’and senators’rhetoric and divisiveness.

Also, if you follow, I watched a few of these press conferences too, I want to bang my head against the wall. This was last year, I’ve stopped watching them completely. But watching those and just hearing the questions from the journalists with no follow-up, they actually catch some of the premiers or senators in a gotcha moment where they need a follow-up question and they won’t follow it up, they just let it ride. It’s clear as day they know that they are getting funding from the government and they bet a total government line. To your point, you’re right, that thing veil is clear as day it’s been removed now. If you’re not with the government, then you’re in some shit and you got to be pushing shit uphill, as they say. I totally agree.

[49:44] Svetski: Yeah, well, this is why I mean, I don’t know, I guess you’re in a bit of a Bitcoin-hosted room. I mean, I don’t know what your position on that is.

We’ve sort of at least Bitcoin as an innovation or as an invention or as a discovery more than anything else. Its essence or its ethos has been one of defunding and making accountable the governors by the governed since the beginning. It was always this insurance policy on if the world does go completely fucking mad and if things get really, really bad, we should have a parallel monetary system.

Because in the absence of something like that, what is going to happen is the government-issued money or the central bank-issued money, which is basically they’re part of the same apparatus, will make it such that if you want to exist in the world, you require money, like you store the product of your labor in a thing called money.

You work for the way you measure the value that you input into an economy, into a society as money. If they are the ones who issue that and can control it, they can tell you what you can spend your money on, how you can spend it, when you can spend it, how much you can spend. If you are a dissident of some sort and you have the fucking alternative opinion, God forbid, and you might think for yourself, they turn it off.

[51:15] Andrew: Yeah, that’s the conversation around digital ID in China. I mean, they’re notorious for that over there. As I said, that’s a conspiracy theory to happen in Australia or the US one day or wherever, right? But stranger things have happened and again definitely that’s why.

[51:31] Svetski: They’re rolling out CBDCs already, man. I just sort of have a Slack channel for the business. I run a Bitcoin company in Australia and it was in our Slack channel yesterday. One of the marketing guys was like,”It looks like the Australians are going to be pursuing crypto. It’s like a CBDC article.”and I was like,”Man, that’s literally–I call it slave coin.”Because that’s effectively what it is, a Central Bank Digital Currency is fundamentally a fucking slave coin. They’ll have the button to measure and track your sentiment and your opinion.

Basically, should you think differently, we don’t need any thought police anymore. We don’t need any of the Orwellian crap. We have the money and that is where they defund you. It is the ultimate.

In the art of war, to defeat your enemy, you go and you cut their resource lines. You turn off their food, you turn off their fucking water. Well, money is the path to getting that in a civilized society and you hold everybody by the balls in doing so.

This is why like people like Tone, people like Bitcoin magazine. We’ve been banging on about Bitcoin. For this reason, Bitcoin is not about fucking getting rich and going to the fucking moon. It is literally freedom money versus slave money and this is at the fucking core. We don’t win this battle, we don’t win shit. I mean, you’re probably familiar with Pete Evans, right?

[52:58] Andrew: Yeah.

[52:59] Svetski: Peter and I are fucking good friends. We’ve done a 12-episode podcast series on his show and kind of taking him through the fucking rabbit hole of Bitcoin. It’s like, this is the battle we must win. Well, this is the war we must win. We win this, then the tide turns. But until then, I mean, as much as I’m surprised about what’s happening in Australia, I’m actually also simultaneously not surprised. Because when you have enough capital or wealth that has been built up over the last couple of hundred years in Oz, you can erode that in the process of doing something that is completely fucking abhorrent to nature, and to natural law, and to fucking freedom, and everything. But you can find your way into becoming a fucking dictatorship.

[53:51] CK: It’s the speed. The surprising part is the speed of how [inaudible]. I wake up every morning, I look at my Twitter feed and I can’t believe I’m watching it escalate on a daily basis.

[54:03] Andrew: Yeah, and the speed is one thing and it’s just people falling in line and accepting it and actually policing it themselves I spoke about earlier. That’s probably been my biggest surprise. There’s one thing that I mandate or a law gets passed by the government. But it’s another thing to have the people implementing and policing that law that has no reason to really. They’re doing the government’s bidding for them for free. That’s kind of my big concern is how quickly people have just said,”Yeah, that’s just the normal way of life. We’re going to live with this because of the virus.”

They’re slowly eroding everything that’s been built in such a great country. I guess the other point I’d make around why Bitcoin is important in what we’re doing in the world is, I mean, I’m sure most of you have bank accounts. But you can go and withdraw some cash that’s more than a few thousand. No lo podía creer.

I went and withdrew some cash about a couple of months ago, 6 months ago I tweeted about this. I got grilled by the teller and I was like,”I know in the US, obviously, they had the 10k law. We have a similar law here in Australia without the right UOP if you’re withdrawing large amounts. But I think I’ll withdraw a little bit under 10k. I think was 8 or 9k for whatever reason, personal reasons.”

The teller is grilling me like,”What are you doing with this money?”I said like,”It’s not your business.””No, I need to know.”I said,”Okay, I’m buying a used car.”I said it with a smile on my face, obviously, just being sarcastic and like,”Yeah, I’m buying a used car.”Then goes on to grill me about,”Well, you know about fraud in used cars. Are you sure there’s someone actually selling?”

“Lady, just–I want my fucking money. I don’t need to have this conversation with you.”That’s when you kind of realize that if you ever want to just mass withdraw your funds, they can put a stop to it if they really wanted to. It was just really in your face alarming that I’m getting grilled by just some lady that’s obviously just doing her job. But she has been mandated to do that by bosses to what are you doing with your money and making me feel guilty about withdrawing my money is kind of bonkers.

[56:04] Svetski: Yeah, we have a saying in Bitcoin called”not your keys, not your coins.”It relates to this as if the money’s in the bank, it’s not yours, buddy. It’s the bank’s and they’re giving you permission to do something with it. This is, again, one of the things about the essence around Bitcoin is that it’s a bearer instrument. Meaning, that when you hold your Bitcoin, there is not a power in the universe that can tell you what to do with it other than you.

That is why governments fundamentally hate it. Governments love crypto, governments love blockchain, governments like CBDC because all of that stuff is manageable by them. The single thing on the fucking planet that they can’t fuck with is a form of money that is in essence information and tied to the second law of thermodynamics such that they can’t fucking change it, corrupt it, adjust it, manipulate it, or anything and they’re fucking shit scared of Bitcoin.

Man, it’s the Achilles heel. We need to get voices like yours in and around this, because the more people we rally around it, particularly in Oz, I think literally the last thing, me and Pete Evans had been banging on about this. I said he’s got to start building communities there which operate parallel to the banking system and everything.

If you guys can get some local farmers’markets and people, fucking handymen and plumbers and teachers, and medical people, if you guys can operate independently of them and use kind of Bitcoin as your mechanism for a transaction–the government can’t fucking stop you. A and B, they want to know what the fuck you’re doing and they think that they got you by the balls, but they can’t. The more we can move Aussies off the dollar standard over there, the more you kind of you do two things:

One is you become independent when they think you are dependent. But number two is, actually, you erode their tax base. Because at the moment, if you’re using Aussie dollars and if you’re paying tax in Australia, you’re literally funding your jailers. You are literally paying the motherfucker who’s telling you to stay inside to ram cotton swabs up your nose even though you’ve been fucking jabbed thirty-six times. It’s the dumbest shit on the face of the planet and we’re paying them for it, which makes it even dumber.

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[60:25] Andrew: Well, I guess the thing around Bitcoin for Australians to understand is, I mean when they look at it dollar-wise, I guess the wild swings, that’s probably what everyday Australians that don’t really know much about Bitcoin, that’s kind of the barrier you need to break down for them. Because they look at it as, well, it’s worth 60k today but then it’s worth 30k tomorrow. How do I charge my plumbing services accordingly? How many coins do I charge? ¿Sabes lo que quiero decir?

That’s where I think it puts a lot of people off here when they look at it just quickly because they relate it back to the US with the Aussie dollar, right? That’s a bit more stable, so that’s kind of what the old school way of thinking. But, I reckon, I think that’s a big problem that you face when you’re trying to get people completely on that Bitcoin platform rather than having anything to do with the dollar.

[61:15] Svetski: Yeah, it’s more around the input and output costs. If you have exposure to dollars on one side and Bitcoin on the other, then you got to manage the volatility. This is where sort of closed systems really work nicely, is that if your input costs are measured in Bitcoin and then your earnings are also measured in Bitcoin, you actually don’t get that volatility because then what happens is Bitcoin becomes your unit of account.

We’ve also got another thing that we talked about in Bitcoin is called stacking SATs. We don’t look at the Bitcoin price, generally. What we’re looking at is the Satoshi value. Very similar to, I’m sure you’ve been to Bali. You go to Bali and you swap your dollars for whatever the fuck the Indonesian rupee or whatever it’s called. You get a massage and it’s nine and a half thousand rupees. In the same way, you can’t kind of look at it that way. A massage in Australia might cost 60 bucks but it’s actually about 100,000 Satoshis. That’s what we sort of want to think in.

Over time, what’s happening is that the price per Satoshi is appreciating in relationship to the dollar. What might be 100,000 Satoshis today is going to buy your massage today. In 10 years, it’s going to buy you a fucking house.

Unlike the Indonesian rupee, which today, nine and a half thousand rupees is going to buy you a massage, in the future, it’ll buy you a fucking spit in the face. That one’s going down in value, but Bitcoin is sort of [crosstalk] in value.

If we can kind of get the unit buyers and more and more people moving across into a Bitcoin standard helps. But yeah, you’re right, the fact that input costs still measured in dollars and people still use dollars as the unit of account means it’s going to take a while for that to happen. But this is part of that educational process, man, the more people understand to think in terms of SATs. Because that’s the place that me and many probably people in this spaces at the moment think in terms of–when I go out and buy some food, and I pay $100 bill, I don’t look at it in dollars. I’m like,”Fucking hell! That’s like 200,000 SATs that I could have fucking had in my pocket that I’ve spent it on food.”

Then the next day, I decided to fast and acquire more SATs. Anyway, it’s an educational thing. I think people, like you, really get deeper and more versed on Bitcoin, I think you’ve got a lot of trust in the community if you can discuss that better.

One final thing that I got to run is Bitcoins have nothing to sell you but your own freedom and sovereignty. The difference with governments and crypto and all the other fiat legacy system is that they have something to sell you, which is their fucking wares or their ideas and their stupidity at your expense. We need to do our part to kind of slap some people awake perfectly.

[64:36] Andrew: Yeah, until the government here tries to, you know, there’s already been rumblings around Bitcoin. It’s the way to launder money. They’ve started that whole spiel, they did a little bit in the US. But the problem is in Australia if it gets too big and we start going strictly Bitcoin and get off-grid to an extent, the government here is going to do something about it. They’re going to implement some sort of bullshit or something to do with it. They’ll try to ban it, they’ll try to hinder it and that’s the issue we’ll have in Australia.

[65:04] Svetski: Sort of.

Their capacity to ban Bitcoin is similar to their capacity to ban the number”zero”or the letter”A”or banning”2+2=4.”They can attempt to do that, but the thing about Bitcoin, what it does is it transforms money into information you can’t destroy.

I could send you Bitcoin over Morse code, I can send you Bitcoin in a photo, I can send you Bitcoin in a fucking audio file. They literally can’t fucking stop it.

One of the beautiful things about Bitcoin on the ways, it gets skin in the game from players at different levels of the game. There are companies that are technically our enemies-whether it’s media companies, whether it’s banks, or whatever-what’s happening is, their own survival instinct and mechanism will drive them to have to put some Bitcoin on their own balance sheet, otherwise they’ll end up fucking obsolete. And in doing so, all of a sudden, they start to loosen their tie to the government and they start to be in a position where they’re compromised!

That’s what we need to as like–as Bitcoin infiltrates, it kind of takes our enemy’s greed and uses it against them. Because they can either not be a part of Bitcoin and, basically, be left behind. Because as Bitcoin continues to appreciate, mark my words, one Bitcoin will be enough for you to probably buy all versions in the next ten or twenty years.

And I’m not joking. People think Bitcoin is expensive as sixty grand. Wait until Bitcoin’s 60 million or 600 million. Then you’ll know it’s expensive.

[66:48] CK: Alex.

[66:49] Svetski: Yow?

[66:50] CK: My name is thirty-seven SATs because I think thirty-seven SATs is generational wealth. So, very bullish over here. [crosstalk]

[66:56] Svetski: Yeah. CK’s probably even more bullish than fucking Miles is. Literally, that’s what we’re dealing with this.

So, this motherfucker’s got no chance against us. What we want to do is we wanna bring as many good people across to protect their wealth and become sovereign, sooner rather than later. Let the fucking government be the last ones to adopt bitcoin because then they can clean our fucking toilets. That’s sort of the game plan.

[67:27] Andrew: Until the playbook from Australia will be labeled as Nazi coin. [crosstalk] They’ll come up with a law or some sort of mandate saying that if anyone offers to pay for anything in Bitcoin you should tell them, tell your local police officer, where they’ll come and get you arrested. That will be the next fight here. With the way, I governed this, man. I can tell you that much.

[67:47] Svetski: Well, they will. This is where strong networks come into place. They’ll do the same with cash. They’ll do the same with bitcoin. So what’s going to have to happen is that strong networks amongst people, amongst good individuals, need to be built now, so that, you guys, can do that.

As that starts to increase, what we need to do is we need to basically get economically strong enough to… It’s a multifaceted attack, right? So there’s no silver bullet where it’s just the one thing. As private individuals do that, as our own enemies, do it like as bank stuff, putting Bitcoin in the balance sheet as large corporates put Bitcoin in a balance sheet. [crosstalk] It makes it hard for them to fucking ban it.

[68:35] CK: Svetski, there’s a lot of complex game theory. It’s going to be tough to chew through it all in just one sitting. Maybe, there can be a side-channel, but I definitely appreciate the strong orange feeling that you bring to the table. Generally speaking, like Andrew, I think, if anything that Alex is saying is that there’s a group of people coalescing around this monetary technology that really see the world in some other way that you do, and are kind of fearful of the same trends and are trying to counterbalance it.

So obviously, Svetki’s very passionate about it. Hopefully, that you can come over to this side because you have a great messaging platform that’s very alive for sure.

[69:25] Svetki: Appreciate that, CK. Look, Andrew, if you wanna hit me up afterward this, man, we should probably have a chat or maybe do a show together or some shit. I’d love to discuss that further. Sorry for kind of hijacking that fucking conversation, I came in swinging.

[69:39] Andrew: Classic.

[69:40] CK: So, I guess, Andrew, I kind of want to give you back the mic and I don’t know how much more time you have, but I guess based on what just… you know, Svetki’s view and this conversation so far, what do you kind of make of–I guess, what are your thoughts on what’s happening around the world.

Bitcoin, what people can do about it. People waking up–are there people waking up with a reason to have hope. I know that’s pretty wide-ranging but I kind of want to let you pick and choose where you want to tackle this.

[70:16] Andrew: Yeah, it’s concurring me in a lot of directions. It’s a lot to talk about as far as that question, I mean, the number one thing from most people is, just from a diverse point of view, it would’ve been able to see the world, and to sit some daily advice for yourself. That’s a start.

I guess the biggest thing for people that I’d been involved in crypto is taking that first step and trying to make that jump. So, you obviously invest some money a little bit early just to see, get a few of how it goes daily. Then maybe instead of buying, whatever it is, it might be 50 dollars a day, or it might be whatever. That will be a start. I think It’s going to be important. It’s what the future holds, exactly.

I like to point that if we could get off the government’s way of thinking, and the government’s teeth with crypto, with Bitcoin, I think it’s a way to go where you can kind of, like you guys said, if you need to pack up and leave, you don’t have to pack a suitcase for your Bitcoin, right? You can just leave and you can have it wherever you’re holding it, I guess. So, that’s the main thing. It’s just a crazy time.

I think there’s a lot of people out there that are trying to voice these concerns. Sort of, Bitcoin, just having people use their voice as the biggest thing. That’s been the most disappointing. It’s not so much the people that are doubling down on government rhetoric and doubling down on the vision, trying to beat us, the Starz out there, the police, all this shit.

It’s the people that are keeping quiet through all this like that. They’re like”Oh, man. If I say something I might be affected, my job might be affected.”I understand it to an extent, but the more people we have that will speak out will clearly show everyone that’s a majority of people. It’s not the minority.

It’s the majority of people who have these views that everyone’s just so scared.”Political correctness.””I can’t go against the grain.””My business has a government contract.”That’s where I’m seeing Australia. That’s the songs everyone hears.

[72:26] Guest 1: Hundred percent on that, Andrew, I refer to it as”unconfiscability.”That’s my elevator pitch. Bitcoin is the first”unconfiscatable asset”in human history. Something in value that you can store in your head. The example I give is going back to the Soviet Union when my family fled the Soviet Union in 1989, we were only allowed to live with 100 US dollars per family member. They even checked how much jewelry you’re leaving with and then they’ll just take it to the airport before you go. So, that’s all you had no matter how much wealth you had, hundred dollars per person to start a new life in a new county. Bitcoin stops all that. All your wealth with you in your head and nobody can stop it.

[73:14] Andrew: Yeah, hundred percent agree.

[73:18] CK: Andrew, have you ever heard of the book The Sovereign Individual?

[73:23] Andrew: No, I haven’t. Good read?

[73:25] CK: That one is absolute fire. It predicted a lot of things including Bitcoin. It was published in 1997. But one of the other things it predicted are COVID, lockdowns for purposes of maintaining bureaucracies. That was published in 1997 and it blew my mind when I read those words reading the book.

It’s definitely a good read and can prepare people maybe for the future that’s ahead. That’s a really good one. Being able to cross borders and take the value with you, it’s a huge thing, I think.

I was talking to a guy who’s like”Yeah, you know the Russian jews would sew gold into their pants to escape with value.”And I was like,”Well, you know, with Bitcoin, you can memorize twelve words, and bam!”I feel like it’s definitely a new weapon in our arsenal-against the freedom arsenal, that is just really a new… something that has never existed before.

[74:31] Andrew: Yeah, by now it’s easy to take out with you. It totally makes sense. I guess it’s just more that conversation of how do you get the everyday Australian, everyday American that has no idea about crypto that gets information from mainstream media. How do you get them on board to say how important it can be, and what it is for the future? That’s probably the biggest goal for it all rather than, I guess we discussed it, we know the pros.

But it’s getting those everyday people who are just not trying mentally. It’s new and shiny, I don’t trust it and the government is always right, and the dollar is today’s need, right? So, it’s getting most people on board.

[75:17] Svetski: On that one, Andrew. I’m going to bounce and grab some dinner. But I was gonna say, I don’t think we need to get everyone on board? I think the people who need to get on board are the people who are literally following you, following me, following Ton, following Pete Evans, following that Michael Sander, and all that sort of stuff.

They’re the ones because they’re the ones who fucking matter. Because they’re the ones who fucking have enough brain cells left to think critically for themselves. We’re not going to wake up everyone. We’re not going to wake up the sheep. We’re not going to wake up the want-to-be fucking inferiority complex mini dictators who are fucking telling you to slip your mask up a little bit further up your nose so you can suffocate more.

The ones we need to wake up are those who are primed to listen. I read an article a little while ago called… it’s about the remnants. It’s a biblical reference to the small minority of people who are intolerant but awake and capable enough to think through things!

They’re the ones we need to talk to and we need to speak to them in a manner that helps them frame and understand what this thing is. They already have a distaste, they already have a distrust, they don’t want to be fucking slaves. A lot of the sheep want to be slaves. They want a government-hire-me-daddy, give me a fucking thirty-six boost, just give me whatever you tell me to do, right?

We’re never going to wake those guys up. So we want to focus on the ones we can. I think you’re a prime example of someone who has got an audience like that. Because otherwise, those people won’t be fucking following you, right? That’s kind of my two cents there. We’d love to connect later, bro. Really appreciate everything you’re doing down there. I hope one day to come back to fucking Australia, but if I can help from here, I’m happy to do my part, man. I’m glad you’re on the right side of the history for this.

[77:17] Andrew: Appreciate it. Thanks.

[77:19] CK: Touche, bro.

[77:20] Svetski: Thanks, everyone. I’m out.

[77:22] Tony: Later, Svetski.

[77:23] Svetski: Later, Tony. [crosstalk]

[77:24] CK: Bye. The article that he’s referencing is called ICS job. Also, a good read. I think there’s an audio version too. But yeah, Andrew we’ve got fifteen more minutes on the calendar. You’ve been very patient with your time. Thank you so much for joining us. The only person on stage who hasn’t voiced a question or a thought is Marjorie.

Marjorie, welcome. ¿Cómo estás? We’d love to give you the stage. Maybe you can ask Andrew a question and then maybe from there, we can do last words, and close it out.

[77:59] Marjorie: Thanks, CK. This will be a very good discussion. I was actually listening to what you guys are discussing and I’m kind of just taking notes.

I’m in Canada right now. When I’m looking at what’s happening in Australia and Europe, I’m kind of so worried because it seems like we’re going the same path as Australia. Where unvaccinated people are unable to leave.

So, basically, I have until this coming Monday to make a decision, whether I’m going to stay in Canada or leave because of my medical status because I’m not vaccinated.

What would you say to everyone here right now, because I’m seeing there are some Canadians and there are some discussions right now? Like what would you advise them? Would you just tell them to wait it out, stay there–Because there are people who are like telling me”I don’t want to leave because I have family here, I have a job here.”What would you advise them, Andrew?

[79:03] Andrew: Well that’s a tough question. I mean, people have different kinds of things that keep them drawing to where they are and that’s the hardest thing. I have a lot of friends and family for that matter in Melbourne that I wouldn’t say they are anti-vax, I wouldn’t say they are pro-vax. I think they’re in the middle, that they were okay. I don’t know if I want to get this because of the long-term implications of taking the vaccine.

I’m hearing mixed reports about one not working and I need a booster. People are just caught on the fence, right? All those people are taking it because they’re going to lose their job.

I do know a few people that just got off and left and go to Europe or different parts of the world. It’s a hard one for me.

I’ve got two children. Like I said, just to pack up and leave is kind of the last resort that is on the table. For me, as a last resort, things are really crazy. I got offerings since where I live my children are wearing a mask in school.

I’m not going to push–my kids are 3 and 5, that they’ll get the vaccination, the current jab, like”no, way.”Not right now, anyway, until I know that it’s more than safe and effective than any little children we got now, right? Which will be an easier way, so for my children, not going to happen. So, I don’t know how to answer that.

Like I said earlier, you can move somewhere that is great now. And then in six months’time, a government official is overthrown and someone else is put in place and then they turn the wrench on you and the people there are completely different lore.

That’s exactly what’s happening in Croatia. What we have thought was going over there for a bit, especially when we heard that the President’s speech, four to five months ago now, saying, as I said earlier, 50% vaccination right? We’re done. Unfortunately, a lot goes on. Sometimes people are going to die. It was kind of an honest speech, and it’s kind of what most people wanted to hear. If you’re sick and vulnerable, and if you’re elderly, you need to protect yourself. If you’re young and healthy and fit, you need to get back on the community and get on with it.

But now, you fast forward four, five, six months, they turn the wrench. They’re part of the EU. I’m sure that the EU got involved and would put pressure on them too. Well now, it’s”no, no, no, you still need a pass.”You need a covered pass to go anywhere simply–all you need to do is a test beforehand.

The only good thing they’ve got there right now is if you’ve had COVID there, there’s actually a vaccine. It’s had covered over there and she’s got papers saying she’s had COVID which gives us six months to not get the vaccine.

But it’s a tough question to answer. I don’t know what your situation is, family-wise, kids, all that kind of stuff. You just got to be careful that you don’t move somewhere strictly for political reasons and then the same thing happens when you’re moving.

[82:04] Guest 2: The proof of recovery is really frustrating because I have that as well. But not enough places accept the full recovery as good as a vaccine when in reality it is better. What you were saying about regime change? I spent, early in the year, I went to Tanzania. Tanzania in Zanzibar because their president was very anti-COVID.

He didn’t even want their people being tested. I was there for like a month, and then the president magically has a heart attack at 61 years old, and the new president puts in all these mandates, and there goes Tanzania!

[82:40] Andrew: Exactly, that’s the concern. I think the move will be where it really gets to the point where you have not a lot of hope, that’s all considered getting out. But if you can just thread water, I mean you’re losing your job most likely, but that’s a tough thing. You just move somewhere and some other asshole gets empowered that is as tyrannical as any other country. And then you’re like”holy shit, now I’ve uprooted the whole way of living my whole life.”

Then you have kids and the same thing happens there, right? I think the world is kind of in a bad position, a bad place right now where… I hope we’d have more answers in four, five, six, seven months’time where we can start to navigate who’s getting on with it and who’s not. But it just seems like whenever you think a country is getting on with it and moving away from COVID-zero taught mentality then months later, it flips back. It’s just kind of crazy.

[83:34] Marjorie: Yeah, I’m totally with you with that. That’s also the reason why I’ve been on defense. I don’t have kids, I work remotely, but I’m very family-oriented. I don’t want to get to a point where like, let’s say I’m in Mexico, or I’m in El Salvador, and then something happens in Canada, and I’m unable to help my family, right? Even though they’re vaccinated.

It’s just that where things are going right now, for me personally, I feel like it’s much more important to be there for my family. But that’s also because of my personality. I want to be reliable to the people I care about if–you know, shit happens, right?

But at the same time, I do see why a lot of Bitcoiners I know, like here in Canada, have moved out already. They’ve already left. But I do ask them also like what happens when the country where you move to becomes tyrannical also, right? They start applying all these mandates as well. At some point, are we going to get to a point where you have no more places to run to?

[84:44] Andrew: That’s a problem.

[84:45] Marjorie: So either we fight, okay? We fight strategically and effectively, or we just keep running away until we have no more places to run to. What is the most strategic and effective way to handle this? This is going to be one of my questions to the Bitcoiners here like CK. What do you guys think about Bitcoiners getting together, taking a whole of the narrative, the mainstream narrative around the economy, inflation, everything that’s going on right now? [crosstalk]

[85:28] CK: I feel like we’re trying… I don’t know, it’s difficult. You’re asking hard questions. A lot of the Texans would say retreat to Texas and make that a stronghold. But not everyone has that option. I think Francis Pullia is an example of someone who’s in Puerto Rico, and he kind of got rug-pulled in terms of the regime and the policy change.

[86:00] Andrew: He’s in Costa Rica.

[86:01] CK: Sorry, Costa Rica. Pido disculpas. Puerto Rico is in the US. All have questionable situations but I mean… I feel like we’re still in the early days, I feel like there will be an outlet because there’s too much demand for a haven. And hopefully, that can be a place where people use defensively eventually. I’m definitely optimistic long-term, although the short-term is definitely pretty easy.

[86:31] Guest 1: I’ve been traveling all year. Yeah, go ahead Andrew.

[86:35] Andrew: You go ahead. I’ll go next.

[86:38] Guest 1: I’ve been traveling all year. Zanzibar and Tanzania look promising no more. so that’s over. [crosstalk]

[86:47] Andrew: Mexico is over.

[86:50] Guest 2: Mexico is still good. I really like Dubai. Most of my year has been spent in Dubai. That’s a whole other conversation. They are kind of forcing–not forcing, but they’re kind of almost forcing, all of their labor force which is mostly India, and Pakistan, and Africa to get vaccinated to keep their jobs, their drivers, and all the employees.

But they’re very capitalistic over there, they love money. That is a decent place. UAE, Mexico… El Salvador has to be near the top of the list. I haven’t been there yet myself so I can’t talk so much about it. But, so far, most of my year has been spent between Mexico and Dubai.

[87:36] Andrew: I think, to your question, Marjorie. I think at this point would be, we’re fighting a pretty tough battle, we’re fighting a big bank in government. I think it’s a lot of”he said,”what he said”–we’re trying to bring other people that want to be pulled over and have this way of thinking.

But one piece of advice I would give, and I don’t know if this is feasible for a lot of people listening. Right now, get out in dense areas, man. Get out of dense areas if you can. What I mean by that is if you live in a big city, try to get a little bit outside of the city. You might lose some conveniences as far as having to walk to a coffee shop or a restaurant, but I would highly recommend trying to get a little bit of land.

God forbid something happens, you’ve got your own property. What we’re seeing here is trying out a palm of duties of being walked down at this one case. So they can basically now go in a 26th-floor high-rise, one case in that building, they’ll lock that whole building down for 14 days, where you’re not leaving. They’ll deliver food to you. So, trying to risk it in a way… I wouldn’t be surprised to get to that level. Here, even crazier. As I said, the backpacker is hostile here. It’s on lockdown. Basically, they deliver food to the people in the self-isolating tents. So more recommendation would be… [crosstalk]

[88:57] Guest 1: Wow, that’s crazy! I have no idea! It was like China over there. Because China was doing that in early 2020. But I have no idea…

[89:08] Andrew: Yeah, I know. Just by today, down in Byron Bay which like I said is a pretty free, hippy type of town. So to happen there is kind of crazy, but I just think big cities and dense areas are going to be most heavily targeted. Because they can just claim you’re in a dense area, you’re in a big building, you need to self-isolate, you need to quarantine, we’re going to lockdown the building. Where if you’ve got your own house, at least worst case, you’ve got property, just a little bit of land. They have no reason to remove you from that because you’re not in a dense area. That’s just one full process I’ve had over the last years. Going back traditionally and just maybe 15-20 minutes outside of a big city. You can access it when you need it. You bought your own little sanctuary.

[89:55] Guest 1: Byron Bay is great. I spent like a week out there. It’s not that dense. It’s a nice area.

[90:02] Andrew: It’s built up now. It’s gonna be bigger. The backpacker hostels are usually pretty dense is what I’m saying. Anything with units and apartments, and buildings where there are mass people in a small space. They are the people that I think are going to be most heavily affected. When we talk about that from an economic point of view, those people are usually… A lot of people who live in high-density stuff don’t have a lot of funds to be able to an estate, that’s the unfortunate reality for some of us people.

[90:29] Marjorie: One of my biggest fear, is actually, especially living here in Canada and given the situation where the federal government, even the provincial ones, they’ve been hostile towards the unvaccinated people, right? What happens if there’s a supply shortage? Because now, they’re also thinking of ensuring that essential workers that are traveling from the US to Canada, they’re going to be mandated to be vaccinated too at some point.

So what happens if that causes a supply shortage, right? It’s wintertime. Something happens, and you’re living in the city and you can’t even get important things or basic stuff that you need. Like what’s his name? Francis Pullia? He actually tweeted about that. Something about the Atlas Shrugged and the power grid just stops working. [crosstalk]

[91:28] CK: Power grids are going to be quicksand. That’s the crazy part. And they are already are. It’s going to keep getting worse.

[91:37] Andrew: I guess that’s my point, I’m trying to… For those who can afford of being somewhat self-sufficient and whether you get some generators and back-up on your property. Whether you’re growing your own kind of fruit. You’ve got something stock shopped. We’re seeing massive supply change here in Australia.

Not so much, food-wise. Food has gone up as it would. We’re seeing it in the building industry like massive, massive supply shortages. We can’t even get lumber here, for the most part, to build the massive, massive backlog on timber, right?

So you look at that, it’s only going to be a matter of time until it affects our logistic outlets. If there is a power grid collapse, then the logistics for trucking, the logistics for moving food, moving commodities all around Australia which generally has to be done by road because it’s such a big area with only a few types of cities, there can be a massive issue. So that goes back to why I think you’d have, once again, is getting away from dense areas so you can at least be quietly wiped, self-sufficiently growing your own kind of food and stuff.

[92:46] Guest 1: This is already happening in South Africa. They have rolling blackouts. Their power grid is just not strong enough to support it. So, this gives! I mean South Africa is considered a developed country. It’s a first-world country. In the major cities, not Cape Town, but Johannesburg, Pretoria, I mean, power just goes out almost every single day and Johannesberg is a very dangerous city.

Most houses there has their own electric fence around them. You have to have your own generator to just keep that electric fence around your house. It’s kind of crazy though.

[93:29] Marjorie: Yeah, I think that’s really something to think about especially when you’re living in Canada and the government is indifferent or hostile towards unvaccinated people. Because it might get to a point where we’re in an emergency situation, but now, they want to prioritize the vaccinated people, right? You’re a second-class citizen. ¿A qué te dedicas?

So, I think it’s important to prepare for emergencies and at the same time what Svetski was saying earlier, start building networks of people who can actually help you, who understands your situation, who are resourceful, and can help you. Because personally, that’s one of the things that I’ve been doing. I’ve been lucky enough to have met a few Bitcoiners here including Ton. And they’ve been very helpful in giving me ideas and tips on what I can do to handle what’s going on right now in Canada, so thanks, guys.

[94:31] CK: So, Andrew, I want to be respectful of your time. I know we’re a little over right now. I guess unless you have to run… We’d like to just kind of close up the conversation. Maybe we can just kind of go to last words and we can close this one out.

[94:48] Andrew: Sorry, I’ve got a few more minutes then I have to take off. But yeah, I appreciate you letting me on. It’s been pretty… I think having these conversations, you have people listening agree or disagree, I think it’s actually good to have these conversations which we don’t really see in the mainstream-different points of view as to why this, why that, why not this, why not that. I think these are very valuable to some people so I hope people listening have taken in–one thing out of everything we spoke about. I think it’s important enough. I’ve taken a few things in this conversation and got a good book recommendation as well so it’s all about learning, read, and forward.

I think… My philosophy right now is to just lie and wait and see what’s going on with the world right now because it doesn’t look like it’s going to get any better for the next couple of months. We’re in a really interesting time in Australia. I think we’re going to know, do I have a land probably by January, February, going back into winter. It’s just going to be a matter of time…[crosstalk] Yeah, go for it.

[95:57] Guest 1: If I may ask for one more question? Have you thought about going to politics? I mean you’re pretty well known and you can have momentum.

[96:07] Andrew: No. Putting my family through that isn’t the best. The political landscape here is just… I don’t think I would last. I think I will be out pretty quickly, by, generally, either you’re in a party or someone in politics. I don’t think the people would be too against it but I’m not the most politically correct, I’m kind of outspoken. So, that causes a bit of an issue, especially mainstream-wise. But I’ve given it thought, previously, but…

[96:38] Guest 1: Hey, if Trump can be elected, then you’ll last. I think politically correct is kind of flexible these days in getting into politics. [crosstalk]

[96:49] Andrew: This time it’s much different. The way it works here is not as easy as being elected and being a big-time senator, premiere. You’re going to kind of work your way out through the minority parties. It’s just not something I want to invest my time in. Just dealing with… I just don’t do well with political rhetoric. I’m kind of pretty much like most people in this room, I got asked a question I want to answer, I don’t want a 15-minute spill. Then I’m like,”Why did you even answer the question?”¿Sabes lo que quiero decir? So I just wouldn’t do well because I’ll literally just be empowerment saying, ”Let’s do that the fucking question.” Like if you are given 15-minute shit, and then, I don’t know how that would go down in mainstream media.

[97:31] CK: Andrew, the politics thing is interesting. Politics have become very popular within the Bitcoin space just in terms of trying to help politicians see the value in Bitcoin and the courage to protect it. I’m not sure if that has a place in Australia if that helps at all with the overall situation.

I guess I just want to give you back the mic. I think you’re saying that you’ve got something out of this conversation, definitely hope you get–these individuals–out of this conversation.

[98:08] Andrew: And I just ordered the book on Amazon. Go on to Amazon. Have you seen how much the hardcopy version of that?

[98:22] CK: It’s really expensive. I think I actually purchased over 50 copies, and I’ve just given them out. I used Amazon to do that.

[98:32] Andrew: The hardcover right now for those who are wondering is $838. So, very, very expensive book. A paperback it’s a very, very expensive book so must be well worth the read.

[98:44] CK: Yeah, man. They’re expensive in Australia. I’m a stan, if you will, of that book.

[98:52] Andrew: I just got the budget paperback. So, hope you’re right.

[98:57] CK: Alright, hey. Keep stacking SATs, my friend.

[98:59] Andrew: That’s it.

[99:00] CK: Awesome. ¡Maldita sea! This is a great conversation. Again, Andrew, I really appreciate your time and the flexibility with organizing it beneath the hood. It’s like a few tries but it was definitely on me. Andrew, you’re the man. I really appreciate everything that you do. I’ve really been appreciating you while you were on the Warriors, and on the Lakers, and in the NBA but even more now with your presence in social media in this kind of climate so, thank you so much. Thanks again for being on!

[99:40] Andrew: No worries thanks for having me, pleasure talking to everyone.